Re: 'Topological Geometrodynamics' and Consciousness

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 19:29:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matti Pitkanen <matpitkanen@phcu.helsinki.fi>
To: quantum-d@teleport.com
Subject: Re: 'Topological Geometrodynamics' and Consciousness

On Tue, 25 June 1996 Stan Klein wrote:

> Dear Matti,
>
> I think I missed something in your discussion of the connection between
> topological geometrodynamics (TGD) and consciousness...
>
>   http://www.teleport.com/~rhett/quantum-d/posts/matti_6-25-96.html
>
>                                                  ...In your view are
> geiger counters and the cerebellum conscious?
>
> If so, then I think you are using the word conscious in a different way
> than most of the rest of us. We seem to be conscious of our cerebral
> activity but not of our cerebellar activity.
>
> If not, then you will have to tell us what is there about the cerebrum
> that can collapse wave packets that is different from geiger counters
> and the cerebellum.
>
> Stan Klein

Dear Stan,

Thank You for your interesting questions.

To make answering easier first let me summarize. Any quantum system,
including geiger counter and cerebellum, is conscious at the moment
it performs quantum jump.  But  there is no continuous stream of
consciousness associated with any quantum system!  The level of
consciousness can be defined  as average number of quantum jumps
performed per  unit time.   Cognitive aspects of consciousness are
assumed to be present if system is quantum critical system in the
sense suggested.  Quantum criticality necessitates classical non-
determinism:  one must select several 3-surfaces to specify classical
spacetime surface X4(X3) associated with X3 uniquely (in general):
geometric model for thought/memory/simulation as the minimal set of
these surfaces. Simple analogy:  free energy allows two degenerate
minima on Maxwell line. Two-sheeted extension of the configuration
space on Maxwell line and quantum superposition of macroscopically
different effective(!) spacetimes. Brain is also a macroscopic quantum
system, unlike Geiger counter.

a)  What differentiates between  geiger counter and brain?

i)  Geiger counter is probably not a macroscopic quantum system. Mostly
    the moments of consciousness associated with G correspond to very
    small parts of G  rather than entire  G.

ii) Human consciousness has also cognitive aspects, which very probably
    lack from the consciousness of a geiger counter or some of its parts,
    which are not a quantum critical system. (Thinking,  memory, etc.)

Criticism:  Are there any reasons to believe that system without any
cognitive abilities can be conscious during quantum jump?  Are human
brains capable to make 'noncognitive' quantum jumps? Perhaps, if we
believe mystics. For example, Krishnamurti again and again characterizes
meditative state as a state in which thinking, memory, etc are totally
absent. There is just now, 'That which is'.

b) What differentiates between  cerebrum and cerebellum?

I am not specialist in brain activities. It would be interesting to
know on what basis one decides that cerebrum is unconscious?  I can of
course fool myself by  making  some guesses.

Guess 1: Cerebellum performs quite few quantum jumps per unit time
as compared with cerebrum so that the level of consciousness is low.
Cerebellum  acts more like a deterministic automaton, or  computer
performing routine tasks, in this case control and coordination of
movement.   It is safer to do the decision making (quantum jumps)
related to the large scale coordination of movement in cerebrum. It
would be interesting to know whether this is the case also when we are
learning to walk. Certainly macroscopic quantum  jumps in cerebellum
would  lead to  undesired  and dangerous spontaneous movements. One
could imagine that in some pathological situations cerebellum might
be quantum critical system and make quantum jumps (epilepsy?).

Guess 2: Cerebellum is not a macroscopic quantum system. Perhaps the
quantum coherence occurs at the scale of only few cells  most of the
time. This would inhibit large quantum jumps leading to disasterous
consequences. Cerebellum could contain complicated feedback loops to
minimize the effects of quantum jumps at the level of single cell.


Matti

http://blues.helsinki.fi/~matpitka/